Arizona Hall of Fame Interviews
of The Blazers/Showmen Inc

Dyke and The Blazers, from Phoenix, are a major contributor to the Funk Music scene, having recorded the classic track, “Funky Broadway,” at Audio Recorders in Sept. of 1966.  I interviewed four of the original members in 2004, before their induction into The Arizona Music and Entertainment Hall of Fame.  Here is that transcribed interview, as those four originals share their stories of Dyke, the band, the Apollo Theater, and the Phoenix music scene at that time.  RIP Rich, Rodney and Clarence.

ARIZONA HALL OF FAME INTERVIEWS of THE BLAZERS / SHOWMEN INC  on 12/26/2004 @The Elks Club 7:00 pm. Transcribed from the Ken Beals video by Alec Palao.

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Your name please?

RB: Rodney Brown.

Where were you born?

RB: I was born Phoenix, Arizona, December 9th, 1946

And have you lived here all your life?

RB: All my life.

What were some of your early musical influences?

RB: James Brown, Temptations, Motown.

Were these things you saw live or heard on the radio?

RB: I saw some of them live, heard some of them.

Any local groups that inspired you, people that you saw here in the local clubs and bars that kind of made you want to become a musician?

RB: No, not me. [laughter]

What was your inspiration in picking up an instrument?

RB: Actually, I was playing basketball in the park and saw this band playing, saw this drummer playing and thought, “you know that looks pretty easy.” That’s how I ended up playing. I was making a lot of noise, I didn’t know what I was doing, and Bernard came by and actually showed me some beats. Because I didn’t know what I was doing, I was just making a lot of noise.

Who bought you your first set of drums?

RB: My mom did.

Did she regret that move? [laughter].

RB: No.

Any other instruments that you played?

RB: No, I’m just a drummer, that’s it.

Where did you first perform in public?

RB: I think it was here at the Elks, but I’m not sure.

What band would that have been?

RB: Dyke, Dyke & the Blazers.

So that was your first band, your first performance here at the Elks?

RB: My first performance, but it wasn’t my first band. I played with Richard and Alvin, with the Untouchables.

Before Dyke?

RB: Yeah.

Who got you into Dyke, what was the Dyke connection? Obviously, a musician, who brought you into Dyke and the Blazers?

RB: Well, it was Bernard. The saxophone player, he showed me how to play the drums and they needed a drummer. And that’s how I got in with Dyke. He actually took me from Richard and Alvin, I was playing with them. They lost their drummer, that’s how it all happened.

Was “Funky Broadway” one of the first songs that you guys started to rehearse, or were you kind of doing the hits of the day? Do you remember some of the first songs you might’ve played?

RB: Just regular songs. We played at the Elks, and we would just make up songs, we were just playing. I think it was Eddie & Ernie (aka Sweetwater), he said, “give the drummer some”. That’s how I got that groove going. That’s how I got it on the record. When we made the record, they gave me a drum solo – I’d only been playing six months when we made “Funky Broadway.”

How often would you guys play the Elks? Was this a regular gig when you first started off, before you really became popular? I mean were you playing every Friday, Saturday night sort of a thing, or once a month or . . .

RB: Yeah, we played here a lot. We were a pretty popular group. A lot of groups used to hate to see us coming because we were taking their jobs. But we played a lot.

Did you play any other place once you got going? Could you name some of them?

RB: We played at the Grass Hut, the VFW [Hall], we ended up on at Swing City, out on Thomas Road.

Did Dyke and the Blazers back anyone, or were you totally your own band, all originals all night?

RB: We played other people’s music, but we were our own group.

So, if somebody came in town, you wouldn’t have to back them up?

RB: Yeah.

Your name please?

BW: Bernard Williams.

Where were you born?

BW: Phoenix, Arizona, April the 12th, 1944.

Have you lived here all your life?

BW: All except for three months, when I lived in Seattle, Washington, from 1980 to the end of 1983.

Could you tell us some of your early musical inspirations please?

BW: Well, what started me off was, there used to be bands right here in town, local bands playing right here. We used to come to dances here. There was a sax player named David Phillips. He was in the band, him and Butch McGhee and Fred Allen. They had a group together, and we used to come here to dance. They were the fellows who really inspired me to play saxophone, watching them.

When did you get your first saxophone and really start deciding you wanted to be a musician?

BW: I didn’t get my first saxophone until I went to California. I was going to school over there for a couple of years, and my mother rented me a horn. I was going to Fremont High School, and they had a beginner’s band class and for that year I was in that beginner’s band class. And then after that year, I came back to Phoenix and there was a band called The Crusaders, and I got with them. And so, I played with them for a year or two. We played at the Sly Fox over on 15th Avenue, but finally Pete left town, he left. That’s when I got my own group, Little Bernard and the Mastersounds.

We will note that Pete was Pete Cosey, who went on to play on quite a few Chess records and with Miles and some amazing people. (Chess Records session player on, “Summertime,” Sitting In The Park” and “Rescue Me,” and went on to play with Davis (1973-1976) and Herbie Hancock, “Future Shock.”). So, the Crusaders were together as a band for over a year here in town?

BW: Over a year, maybe two years. We used to play on the Wallace & Ladmo show.

Who gave you the call or which one of your buddies told you about an opening with the Blazers?

BW: See, the way that happened is, we didn’t have Rodney when I had Little Bernard & Mastersounds – well, that was before Rodney. We had another drummer named Elmer Scott. And what happened is, Dyke was with Carl Larue & His Crew, and so Carl LaRue and the drummer Hockaday and the sax player JV (Hunt), when that group broke up, they were playing at the Zanzibar. Those three guys went back to Buffalo. And Dyke and Pig stayed here. So, what Dyke did was come and talk Elmer into joining his group, which left my group without a drummer. We were playing at the Elks, and they were playing at the Zanzibar. And so it was Eddie and Ernie, they were in my band, and we had a guitar player named Phil, and me, we didn’t have a bass player after Elmer left. We just played without a drummer right up there [points to bandstand]. And what happened was, I got a gig at the Can-Can Lounge, which used to be on 3rd Street and Roosevelt. So, I went and talked to Dyke, since he got Elmer. I went and talked to him about us getting a gig, doing a gig at the Can-Can Lounge. And so that’s what’s really got me with Dyke and the Blazers. We were just called the Blazers.

Your name?

AB: Alvin Battle.

When and where were you born?

AB: August the first, 1948, Sapula, Oklahoma, on the porch.

Have you been in Arizona all that time or have you left?

AB: I’ve been in Arizona since the early 50s.

And how old were you when you moved out?

AB: Probably about five, five or six.

Who and maybe what were some of your early musical influences?

AB: I think I was influenced internally by my uncle, he always seemed to have a guitar. I would just pick it up and mess around with it. I remember playing ‘Honky Tonk’ and stuff like that and just started messing around.

And were there any bands locally that you were in before you joined Dyke?

AB: Oh yeah. Casey and Rodney, we were actually in a different group, called the Hat Brothers, we wore hats. Then we changed to the Untouchables. And so, I was just playing with them, just messing around. Casey was the one who actually influenced me to play the bass, matter of fact, he taught me the notes on the bass. I wasn’t really that interested in it. Sometimes, because I lived right across the street in the project, I would sneak over and just listen to the bands play the Elks, and so I always want to kind of play up here.

And where would the Hat Brothers play, what kind of gigs were they doing?

AB: Just local gigs, talent shows and stuff like that. We just played. Casey was so committed to the rehearsal; he picked us up at school and everything and he’d take us and make us rehearse all the time. We learned every song that was played on the radio, just by ear.

Speaking of radio, was KCAC the station, what were you listening to radio-wise here in town?

AB: They didn’t have a lot of us on the radio then. It was actually KRIZ Radio, Tony Evans and stuff like that before KCAC. I don’t remember a lot of R&B.

Hadley had an hour-long show on KRIZ for a while . . .

AB: Him and Tony Evans had a little show, but there was very little R&B that I remember being played at that time.

Your name?

RC: Charles Richard Cason.

When and where were you born?

RC: Phoenix Arizona, May 5th, 1945.

Have you lived here all your life?

RC: Up until 1971.

And what were your early musical influences?

RC: I think my earliest was Pete Cosey . . . when I met him, he was so exceptional.

So, guitar was your first instrument and who bought that guitar for you?

RC: My mother

Tell me some of the early bands. We’ve heard them before, but just again, what was your first band that you remember?

RC: Pete Cosey.

And where would Big Boy Pete play around town?

RC: Places like the Sly Fox. He was on the Wallace and Ladmo cartoon show for about a year, and we were on there too.

Once you started to play and started to get more serious, what were some of your early influences or maybe people that you would style your music after?

RC: As a keyboard player, I went to organ, because you couldn’t always move the piano. Jimmy Smith, no doubt.

What was the first song?

RC: “Chicken Shack,” key of C.

Everyone has kind of mentioned your influence on bringing them into the band. When did you first meet Dyke, what was your connection to the Blazers?

RC: Well, after Pete, that’s when I got really serious. He became my mentor, but he had to
move back to Chicago, and as you know he played with Miles and all these people, just an exceptional guy, I would say a full genius. After he left, Alvin and Rodney and I started playing together. We formed our own group, the Hat Brothers, who became the Untouchables. We never really . . . no, we did have gigs, we played around here, because in those days, bands played and you always had a front man who sang, and that was Eddie & Ernie, Sweetwater. They were into that Sam & Dave thing, but they were actually influencing people like Sam & Dave. They were the first group from Phoenix to get to the Apollo.

When did you move to Los Angeles?

RC: 1970.

And what was the reason?

RC: Just to further myself in music. Hadley Murrell, he told me one day that I could actually write. To me, I was just making up songs, but he said, “you’re a writer.” So, I moved there, to do that.

As you worked with your friends, were you doing the arrangements? As the keyboard player, when you heard a song, you kind of picked the key and stuff?

RC: In Dyke & The Blazers, everybody kind of made up their own part. I started arranging later with other groups like Formula IV, and stuff like that. With Dyke, if you knew the instrument, you made the part up. Rodney was a natural drummer and Alvin just played, “You said E flat?” Get your tempo and he got it going.

Looking back now musically on your career. What does Arizona mean to you? How did it influence you in the music you play now and the things that you do?

RC: When I was in Arizona, everything was just raw and from your soul, you didn’t have a whole bunch of people to emulate. There was no, I remember Booker T & the MGs, remember that was [inaudible for few sentences] . . . and I listened to sax player David Phillips. That was the kind of music we looked at, but our generation was a bit different, we started doing, what’s considered the[inaudible] riff. Rodney was on it, he played syncopated, it was just the 2 and 4 and you never knew where it was going to end. And then on the bass, you’d have minor key, but the bass was always playing major, so that gave it a little tension. That’s what you call early funk. Nobody knew what it was, but keyboards were on a minor and bass on a major and the drums were syncopated, and the horns, they’re playing all the way through, like background singers. We were chasing James Brown, and then he started chasing us [laughter].

Alvin, what are your Arizona influences? Moving out here and growing up, what did Arizona add to your music – the fact that you’re out here in the middle of the desert, how did that affect your playing and your attitude about learning to play?

AB: Since I’ve been in Arizona, I never had any other outside influences. Early on, you know, just the church and the soul from the music. So, I’ve never had any outside influence other than church or what my uncles played. Then I got hooked up with Casey and then they convinced me that I can play the bass, we just played what we felt, what we heard. Anything that we hear, we play.

Bernard, what did Arizona mean for you growing up here? What influences growing up here in the desert do you bring to your musical playing?

BW: Well, this is where I was born, but my influences really started right here at the Elks, because this is why I used to come see the band playing; David Phillips, Fred Allen, Butch McGhee. This is where they played at. And so that’s really what influenced me to start playing. See, David Phillips’ mother and my mother were best friends. That’s what caused me to notice David Phillips over any other instrument? See what I mean?

Rodney, what did growing up here in Arizona, what influences did growing up here in the desert, bring to your music. How did it influence your playing?

RB: Well, I used to listen to a lot of James Brown and different drummers. And, uh, one thing about growing up here is that when we came out, we came from Arizona, and we were a hot, new sound, and a lot of people was worried about us. In fact, James Brown came and spent the whole day with us at the Apollo Theater. He spent the whole day with us because they were worried. We started, we started funk, funk started right here in the desert, and we were part of that group that started it.

Okay, we can open it up now. Let’s talk about that. I mean, suddenly there’s a much better respect for funk. And it started over in England. Somehow the English, they call it northern soul, but it’s basically funky music and the more obscure, the better. They really don’t want to know about the hits that much as they do about some of the great records that a lot of people don’t know about. That first session, tell me a little bit, I don’t know whoever wants to jump in, but, once you guys started playing and doing stuff, how did the idea to record come up? Do you remember how that happened?

AB: I think we were playing “Funky Broadway” right here [at the Elks] a long time before the recording. Art Barrett and Austin Coleman came in and they saw the reaction, how the people would respond when Dyke was out doing his thing and Dyke had this charisma with the crowd. Every time we played that, it seemed like people would just dance, it really seemed like it was infectious, I guess.

Was Dyke originally a singer. After Carl [LaRue] split, did he kinda. . . how did the singing come about?

AB: Dyke was the bass player. When the two groups merged, they took Rodney from us, he deserted us and then they wanted Casey. And because Dyke was playing bass, that left me on the outs. Plus, I was too young to really get in the club, so Dyke would continue to play bass and everything and then they said, no, we’ve got to have Alvin. He’s part of us. So, we just pulled in and I guess Dyke probably just wanted to be a star anyway during that time. He just started singing, singing more and he had the charisma with the crowd and everything. It just worked out like that. That’s how I remember it, it just worked out. He liked the idea of being a star, and so I played the bass, and we played a long time before recording. He would just sing. We would do the sets, we’d play all the other records on the radio and everything, and then Dyke would come up and he’d be the star and wobble his legs and it’s showtime at the Elks with Dyke & the Blazers.

There’s confusion about where this “Broadway” actually was, and my research has told me that there were two “Funky Broadways.” Dyke had a Broadway in Buffalo, and there was a Broadway here. Do you remember the genesis of that song?

BW: Dyke was staying on 24th Street and Broadway, in those apartments that were on the north side. He was staying there, and I was staying on the south side too. He picked me up one night and we were just coming down 7th Street, across the river bottom, and he said, “I got an idea for a song.” I said, “well, what is it,” it wasn’t no words or nothing, and he said, “Funky Broadway.” I say, “Funky Broadway”? Then when we got here, he just started playing doom-doom-doom, doom-doom, and we all put our part in there right on that stage, that night.

RB: Yeah. We used to make songs up at the spur of the moment. You started playing on the stage.

Hadley told me that the word “funky” was not a popular word.

RB: They had banned us in some states.

AB: I think what made “Funky Broadway” even more popular during that time was to have to say the word “funky,” that wasn’t being used. As a matter of fact, they banned that record on several radio stations in Cleveland.

RB: We couldn’t play it in a couple of places.

AB: They just banned it off the radio because of the word “funky.” So, I guess, you know people, you ban something, they want more of it or whatever. It ended up selling and being #1 in Cleveland, because they banned the word “funky,” it just wasn’t a word to use during that time.

RB: It was funky, nasty, stanky, filthy: that sounds pretty bad.

AB: Dyke just got low down, and he made it sound even worse than it probably was. I mean, even on a local radio station, you had to be careful about playing that record. So, it probably didn’t get a lot of local play because of the word “funky.”

Of all the songs you guys were playing at the time, what was “Funky Broadway” the most popular one, or were there some other of your originals that could get people on the floor and going?

RB: “So Sharp.”

AB: “So Sharp” was one.

RB: “Broadway Combination” too.

AB: “Broadway Combination,” and they used to like to hear Dyke do “The Wrong House.”

RC: Well, we were doing a Lou Rawls tune, “Tobacco Road.”

RB: But we did change the sound of music. Like I was the first drummer to take a drum solo and then it seemed like everybody got on the bandwagon. James Brown came out with “Cold Sweat.” We actually changed the whole sound and the way music went, we just didn’t stay together. If we would have stayed together, we probably could have really gone a long way.

You meet Barrett and Coleman here in the club, as I understand it. I did interview Art Barrett before he passed years ago, where he said that basically he had come up to you and made the comment what a great song and Dyke said, “why don’t you make a record of it?” Did you guys know how that came down or what happened?

RC: They were entrepreneurs, that’s what they were.

RB: They took advantage of us.

RC: They recognized from what the crowd reaction was, that this could be the one to do something with, because there was a transition about to happen in music. Everything in that time, all of the main bands were the swing bands. So, all the music was kind of like on the edge of bebop, you know? And so, when we started putting the breaks in, it was a deviation from the swing. That’s what made the crowd react, because it kind of stood out. Everything else we did was doot doot doot-doot doot, which was the bebop thing. And that one was, it was just hip for the time. We didn’t know it was hip, but it felt good.

Did any of you guys have day jobs? I mean during the time, would you just play at night or were you guys’ full-time musicians?

AB: I was actually in high school in those days, Rodney was in high school, we were both in high school.

RB: I was in high school also, I had a job doing commercial art, I worked for the state department. Then the record hit, and I left all that.

In those days before the hit, how often would you guys rehearse? Did you guys rehearse a couple times a week, play a couple of times?

RB: About two or three times a week.

AB: I don’t remember rehearsing. When we first got together, we rehearsed all the time. But after we got with Dyke, I don’t even remember no rehearsing.

RB: We used to rehearse over on 24th street . . .

AB: In the basement.

RB: . . . and Broadway, at those apartments, before the record.

AB: I never really remember us rehearsing. But what we would do when we did get together, we’d make up a song. We’d say “E flat,” and whatever you come up with . . . Bernard came up with “So Sharp.”

RB: We made “So Sharp” up on the stage

AB: “So Sharp,” we just made it up on a stage like this. I really don’t remember us practicing.

BW: We didn’t start rehearsing until after “Funky Broadway.” We played at this club (Elks) on Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and then we played at the Grass Hut on Friday and Saturday. So, we never rehearsed.

RC: We didn’t have to, because most of the music was kinda tradition, you knew all you had to do was change tempos. It was the same groove on almost everything.

So, you guys were working four nights a week as the Blazers?

RB: Yeah, we worked a lot

BW: Plus, we were working at the Grass Hut on the weekend after hours, on Friday and Saturday. That was right down the street.

Doing the recording was it a big kick to go into Audio Recorders? This fancy studio, where Dave Oxman was the engineer. There must have been on a Friday, because I think Art Barrett said that was when he got paid. He told me, Dyke kept bugging me, man. When are you going to, you know, when are you going to record us? And so, not knowing anything about recording or production, he finally got enough money together to go in and pay for the session. It was a three-hour minimum at Audio Recorders, but he only had enough money for an hour or so. He asked the owner, hey, can you just do an hour? Cause that’s all I’ve got the money for. And then the story goes that there was no B-side, which was unusual too. Dave Oxman said, “okay, I’ll just fade it down and fade it up for Side 2.” Any comments on that? I mean they said that you just kind of did two, ten-minute takes, and that was it.

RC: It only took two takes, and we played and sang at the same time. The only one who sang was Dyke, but he played bass, and it was a four-track, which was what the tracks were at the time. And then you got up to 8 you were in grandstand studio, and 16 was unheard of. And that’s the difference in the sound, I think. I think that contributed to the sound too, because it made it more raw. And uh, I wasn’t intimidated because we had played the song so much. My thing was like, okay now Jimmy Smith gets a chance to imitate me. That’s where I was coming from [laughter].

I’m sure it was a rush. Did you guys actually get to hear it back in the studio?

RC: Yeah, after the second take.

Just to hear yourselves coming back at yourselves. Was that kind of kick the first time that happened?

BW: Not to me. It was just like it was done. It was done.

AB: None of that was a big deal to me. I think because we never even expected to do anything like that, because nobody had gone like that from here.

RB: He’s speaking for himself.

AB: I mean, this is me. Right. But I mean to think that “Funky Broadway,” by Dyke and the Blazers would have been popular, I’d never even thought about it.

BW: The only reason we did two takes, was because on the first take he [RB] was playing a solo on the drum break instead of the beat, so we had to do a second take. Otherwise, we would have made it in one take.

Well, it still isn’t whole, I think it’s like 2:30 on one side and 2:30 on the other side there. One of the CD versions just edited the two together. It’s only about seven minutes. Once you have that done, then Art Barrett had to come up with the money to press the record. That was another thing, it wasn’t like it came out a week later. It took them quite a few weeks between the recording to actually getting records pressed. When the record first came out, were they selling them down here? Like that night you could buy the “Funky Broadway” here at the Elks. Does anybody remember that?

RB: No, they weren’t doing it like that, but then it hit the radio and it started selling.

Tell me about the first time you heard it on the radio.

AB: I remember one of the ploys, I think that Tony Evans had said, we should call in and request the song. So, we could get a lot of airplay just by calling in and requesting it. We’d call him and request “Funky Broadway.” We’d get our friends and family to call KRIZ and request “Funky Broadway,” so we’ll get a little bit more airplay. I don’t remember how much.

RB: I don’t remember none of that.

Art said that he went around neighborhoods and handed records out to kids, who were so jazzed that it said “funky” on the label. He told them to call KRIZ and request the record. Wow, this is so cool.

RB: I didn’t know what Art was doing, I know he burned us. When I first heard myself, I thought it was a big deal, because I had never heard myself on tape. One thing that I did do, I know Bernard said I was soloing, but I wasn’t. When I made “Funky Broadway,” on that little break, I’m doing there, I was doing that through the whole song, but the guy that was there told me, “Rodney, this song’s too busy. You need to just keep it straight until you get to the solo.”

Was that the engineer, Dave Oxman?

RB: Yeah. So, I did that. But I never trusted Art or Coleman. When people come in like that, you end up losing, so we ended up losing in the long run.

Now here’s the big move where you guys are here in Phoenix and then the call comes to . . . was the Apollo your first gig outside of Phoenix?

RC: No, that was our last gig, as the Blazers.

As the Blazers. Yeah. Was there a little . . .

AB: Los Angeles, I think the 5/4 Club and the Forum in LA, and Cleveland, Ohio

RB: San Francisco.

AB: The thing was to work your way to where you were going. So, we had stops in Cleveland, Chicago, places like that. So, we worked our way. I remember us working the West Coast, going on to California over there Oakland, San Diego, playing with T-Bone Walker and all those guys.

RB: They loved us in Stockton, all the women was trying to get at us.

Oh, that must’ve been terrible . . .

RC: I hated that [laughter].

RB: That was the first time I ever seen police dogs called in for crowd control.

How long was it between recording “Funky Broadway” and the Apollo? Did you guys play together a solid a year? Or was it six months before you got there?

AB: One amazing thing to me was that I think none of us had been playing that long, period. Rodney had just been playing for a few months.

RB: Six months, but I don’t know how long it took to get to the Apollo.

RC: I know that whole tour, it couldn’t have lasted more than six months.

RB: before we got to the tour.

RC: That’s what I mean, in continuity. There was some continuity once we started.

You guys were on the road all the way through to the Apollo?

RB: It was a long time.

Was it a thrill to be at the Apollo? Was it as exciting as people say it was?

RB: Oh yeah, it was a great time.

RC: See, that was the pinnacle at that time. When you played the Apollo, you know you had made it, whether you had money or not…that was it.

RB: We knew we was on top.

AB: We were so excited and ecstatic about even going to the Apollo. Because like Casey said, any group, if you made it to the Apollo, it was sort of a mark of having made it. Not whether you actually made any money or not, but if you just made it to the Apollo. So, we were all excited about going to the Apollo and playing there, five times a day, five days a week.

RB: We had Small Paul with us, and he had his own dice, and we’d have dice games on the top floor, because they had us on the top floor. The Apollo was like ten floors, and we was on the ceiling. [laughter] The Blazers got a game up on the tenth floor, everybody would be up there gambling.

So, Paul made the trip to the Apollo with you? Now would he ever come out as a vocalist?

RB: He didn’t perform at the Apollo, but he was with us. When we did other venues, he would sing.

So, he was kind of just helping, taking care, making a little money on the side?

RB: He would sing when we would go different places.

AB: This is what I believe really happened with Paul. I remember one time we were at the 5/4 Club in Los Angeles. Paul was a big . . . heavy set. And Paul had rented him a tuxedo and a cane and a hat and everything, and he came out. He could dance, real good, light on his feet. Paul would do the James Brown dance and the
splits and everything, and the people loved Paul. I don’t know what happened, but Paul didn’t perform no more.

RB: Dyke wouldn’t let him perform after that [laughter].

AB: Dyke wouldn’t have no more of that, because Paul was huge . . . and Paul was Paul.

RB: But you had to have a name to sing at the Apollo, you couldn’t just show up and sing.

Who else was on that bill with you?

AB: Joe Tex was a highlight. A guy named Walter Jackson, “Speak Her Name.” Oh, he could sing, but he walked up on crutches, so pitiful, and the chicks would go crazy . . . he’d open his mouth, and I’d get misty eyed. That was him. Who else? Joe Tex was on the show . . . that’s where we met Otis Redding and James Brown after. Well, they weren’t on the bill, but they had dropped by. James Brown had definitely come to see Dyke & the Blazers, I thought that was outstanding. I met James Brown and I was . . . we all loved James Brown. Anyway, we met James Brown at the Apollo and he was asking us, he says, “hey man, what y’all got in the hole?” At the time we were at the Apollo, “Funky Broadway” was number one in New York and “So Sharp” was the hit pick of the week. So, James Brown actually came to see us.

Did you play it for the full week?

RB: Full week, all day and night. We got Wednesday off.

Was the Apollo five shows a day? Seven days a week?

AB: I don’t know, but it was five shows a day. It was seven days a week and on the weekend it went to three o’clock in the morning. You went to 12:00 the other days.

RB: One night a week they had a talent night, that was on Wednesday, they’d have all the talent people come out.

It must have been quite a kick to be standing there. Joe Tex must have had a great band.

AB: He had some great go-go girls too, at that time, praise the Lord. They didn’t have a house band. On the New York streets, they would sell rotten apples and tomatoes and stuff like that. And if you wasn’t good at the Apollo, they had the mics come up through the floor. If you weren’t any good, the mics would go down in the floor and the people would start throwing at you. So, we just didn’t want to get things thrown at us.

You gave it five days, five shows and maybe you gave it your all. How long, how long would you say being then being one of the earlier acts?

AB: We just did two songs, I thought.

RB: The hit and the next one.

What two songs, obviously “Funky Broadway”?

AB: Because “So Sharp” was hit pick of the week at that time.

Now you guys had to kind of run out on the stage. I mean did they have like your drums on a riser sort of a thing or pull them out?

RB: Yeah, they just pull them out and pull them back.

So, you had the MC doing yada yada, and then boom, you guys?

AB: The curtain would come up, and we would run out there and they’d put the guitars in the amp and the amp. I don’t think we did a soundcheck, you just played.

RB: Probably did it earlier.

RC: Well, there was a hierarchy, Joe Tex always had soundchecks.

RB: It was too much work though, it was too much.

The feedback from the audience just must have been . . . that was the biggest venue you guys had played, right?

RB: Well, we played at the Forum too in LA, that’s when a lot of stars were there.

AB: Yeah. But you know, the Apollo, not only because it was the thing, but from the stage at the Apollo you see people out there and then tiers of people and everything all responding in kind, in a city that’s known to be colder than the weather, was something to us because it really . . . we were really well received well, at the Apollo. I mean during that time if you made it at the Apollo, it was a sign that you had made it, not just to the Apollo, but you made it at the Apollo.

Briefly, I just want to touch on what happened at the Apollo with the Blazers as a band

RC: You mean about performing, or the breakup?

Yeah, the breakup that happened right there. Did it happen when the week was done, sort of?

AB: When the week was done, I had made up my mind – me, I’m just talking from me – I was through, because we had played five shows, five shows a day for seven days or whatever, and I didn’t have any money to show for it. So, I just said, you know what? I didn’t have money to get home. I said I’m through with this. I left. I was telling Rodney and Casey, these were my close friends, man I’m going home. I’m leaving, I quit. I quit and I left. I told them I’m going. I called my mother, told her to wire me money. “Mom, I’m outta here.” That’s what happened. And I think Rodney came with me…

RC: We had a meeting in the basement of a hotel and there was a gig, we had different rides and the people that would meet, we were there at the gig, but Dyke and his people weren’t, for whatever reason. And so, we went to the Apollo after the gig, and the manager said that we were liable to pay for not going to the concert. They were going to sue the band. And so, I just thought that was unfair and that’s when I got the truth about the music business, because Art said, “anybody can be the Blazers,” and he was right. Any time you have a frontman and then you have an “and”, anybody can come after that, which was true and that’s when I realized that I had to do something else with somebody else by myself really.

So did all four of you pack it in at the same time?

RB: We all quit at the same time.

RC: Bernard quit last.

RB: I quit because, just like Richard told you, we missed a gig, they were gonna sue, they were gonna charge us. I was cocky, young, I figured, hey, I can do this again. We came back home, and it didn’t happen . . . that’s how music is, music is strange, it’s a monster, you love it, you can’t get away from it and if you’re lucky in life to get a hit, then God bless you with that. Because anybody could have been playing drums, could have been Elmer (Scott). Big Hammer. There’s a lot of drummers around. I just happened to be in that spot at a particular time. Music has been rough on me, it’s just been rough on me. I mean I traveled a lot after this. I could, I was a pretty damn good artist. I probably could’ve made a lot of money doing art as my work.

You all had families, right? Or were you all single guys at the time?

RB: I was single, running loose.

You had expenses and needed to keep things going . . .

AB: But I never was that committed really, I didn’t have the passion for it like these guys did.

RB: Yeah, he quit when we got back.

AB: I just took it as the thing to do, playing, traveling and everything. That was almost enough for me to go into town. And they talked about you on the radio and the women calling and trying to be around your bus and everything – not that I did it anything [laughter], I was just a boy. But they were all up in their rooms and all this kind of stuff like that. But I mean, that was really enough for me at the time. I just didn’t know, so I quit.

RB: Alvin quit playing when we got home. That shocked me, how you gonna quit playing music? Just like right now, you know, I got old, you know, I’m almost 60 years old now and a lot of people say, well Rodney can’t play no more. I can’t play like I used to when I was a kid, but all of a sudden the urge is hitting me, you know, and I want to go out and play, you know, it’s like a curse. And then most musicians that are lucky and make it, make it on top and make a good living are blessed, you know, because it’s a rough life. And Alvin was doing real well, he quit early. I started selling real estate. I’m doing all right, but I was still here. You know, now I would like to be out in the audience.

AB: Thank God all of us are doing all right. I mean that’s a blessing. All of us are doing all right. One thing I remember I quit early, because my passion, just wasn’t in it, they wasn’t getting paid, you know, we just wasn’t getting paid. We were getting what? $10, a night $40 a night for a few drunken gigs, and with everything we still weren’t getting paid at the end. Plus, even when we were playing, I really would like to be out in the audience and stuff like that more than I would like to be on stage. So, I just quit and got a job.

Bernard, what did you do when you came back, after coming back from the road?

BW: When I quit, it was Casey and Rodney talking me into quitting, because I wasn’t going to quit. They kept bugging me, these two, to talk me into leaving the next day. I didn’t quit. They talked me into quitting. See because they didn’t get paid for the Apollo, but I did, because I hadn’t quit.

AB: You got paid?

BW: I got paid.

The truth comes out forty-two years later. Briefly because the Showmen Inc. was such a great record, and that’s been sampled by the way. It’s called ‘Brainfreeze,’ which is one of the best selling albums, DJ Shadow put it together. It’s a CD of samples and they sampled “Tramp From Funky Broadway” on there.

RB: Bernard wrote that song.

You know that there’s some interest in that record. A copy just sold on eBay for seventy-two bucks, Yeah, just the 45, but it’s been sampled. How many copies do you have got at home?

BW: I got a copy of “Funky Broadway” on the Artco label.

That’s good. That’s very collectible. But who, whose idea was the “Tramp from Funky Broadway”?

BW: Mine, that song is about Dyke. He’s the tramp from Funky Broadway. That’s why he wrote in that song “Let A Woman Be A Woman,” “some people call me broadway tramp.” That was his answer to me, and he was talking about my wife at that time. My wife is named Sally – “some people don’t like the way Sally walk.”

Wow, because that riff has been lifted, just that drum beat for the breakdown has been played and played and played, as it is a real popular beat. Are you and Sally still an item?

BW: We’re divorced now, she remarried but we’re still friends…we’re not enemies.

How much longer after you came back did the Showmen Inc. perform as the
Showmen here in town?

BW: Yeah.

So, The Elks [club] kind of picked you up again?

BW: Riverside Park too. We went to Denver.

And why was it on the same label that had Dyke? It’s on Now Records, owned by Original Sound.

BW: Yeah. That’s just another label. I don’t know why he didn’t want to put it on the Original Sound label. He wanted to put it on that Now Sounds of Today for some reason, probably because we quit. You know what I mean? He wanted us on a different label, he really didn’t want us to get big as Dyke, probably.

So, you still maintained your relationship with Art Laboe and all. I see. Gotcha.

RB: He called us up giving us a deal, another shot for a record, but he only gave us that one shot though.

Just looking back, was it, like a great experience for you. What was being in the Blazers, mean to you now?

RB: Looking back now, it means a lot to me, that we are finally getting some recognition for what we did, even if we might not be getting paid for it. Plus, looking back on my life I enjoy being with the fellows, music, travelling, so I had some good times, it was just part of my life, glad to be a part of it.

Same question to you. Looking back on it, what was the experience? How would you sum it up?

BW: I would say I enjoyed that experience and that part of my life, but looking back at it, there’s been too much money made off of all our material, for us to be paid for what we did, would be millions of dollars now. See, that was 40 years ago and so we know that, Dyke and Art Barrett and Austin Coleman were too greedy. You see what I mean? It was enough money for everybody and I’m looking back on it now. We were cheated out of what we were entitled to and I think we should get it. That’s how I feel. Nobody else may say that, but I will tell the truth.

AB: I think that’s how it is, that was one want the most phenomenal experiences I’ve ever had, and it means more to me now looking back over the accomplishments that we did, it means more to me now in retrospect than it did at that time.

RC: I know it was important because it was like innovation of everything, it let us change music when we weren’t trying to do it, yet we were. It was the beginning of everything we learned. I got my music chops together and learned more about the business. Whenever you get screwed you learn, and they learned me, and I am going to have no regrets for none of them. I was with Rodney, Bernard, Alvin, Pig and Dyke and JV (Hunt). JV is the first musician I think I’ve ever met besides Peter Cosey, who was a true musician. He knew music.

So, he was another inspiration for you as far as a guy who knew what he was doing?

RC: Because he gave me courage to learn, modes to play, things I didn’t even know existed. I just played music, but he let me know the intricacy of music and how you know what you can do with it.

AB: JV was older, JV was educated in music. He had the education, and he was an older guy and he inspired Casey. JV knew music. He played saxophone.

RC: He’s the one taking the solo on part 2 of “Funky Broadway.”

BW: I got one other thing I wanna say before this interview is over.

Please do . . .

BW: You know Tony Evans the DJ that’s on the radio, he got 100% publishing rights on “Funky Broadway.” That’s another way that Dyke & the Blazers got screwed, and that is the only reason why you hear Wilson Pickett and other singers singing “Funky Broadway.” Because that’s the only way Dyke could get the publishing rights from Tony Evans. But on average Tony Evans got 100%, him and Art Laboe. Wilson Pickett and all the other people…they got a cut. Now Dyke got his own publishing company, him and Art Laboe, splitting those publishing rights. See, we got axed out of that. You see what I mean? They owe us. That’s the way I’m looking at it. I don’t want to dig up no can of worms here, but it’s the truth.